Noel King spoke with Ijeoma Oluo, author of “So You Want to Talk about Race,” about system racism. The dialogue touched on what systemic racism means how does it affect people day to day and harm communities.

King starts the segment with the following statement:

Individual or interpersonal racism is pretty easy to explain. It’s name-calling. It’s the white kid on the bus who doesn’t want to sit next to the black kid. It happens with adults, too. Systemic racism, though, is bigger, and it’s more complicated, and there’s more skepticism about whether it really exists.

Click below to find both a recording and a transcript of the conversation that followed that statement.